116 results in messages | 14 results in threads

#1: Re: Thanks for the replies.

by Yukari on 08/28/2013 01:47 in General Thread

In that case, if needed for larger levels I should be able to create a platform that transforms a player to another map when you stand on. So like you approach a castle and there is an invisible platform in front of the door that teleports you in side. (Just an example)

Though most transport would likely be done through a visible portal players can interact with and select any level in the game which they already have cleared or unlocked and be transported there. (Like the 100 levels in SAO combined with the Gate from .Hack/sign)

As long as it is feasible, like the game engine can handle it and such, then I think I can handle learning how to get the code to work. If more players start connecting though I may need 1 helluva server to be able to support them though.. I wonder how cube would handle 100+ players in 1 map. @_@

I like what I have seen in Cube so far though. The controls and first person view I think would make for a nice real-time combat experience in a VRMMORPG like this.

I will look at a few other engines before making a decision but so far I kind of like Cube.

#2: Thanks for the replies.

by Yukari on 08/27/2013 22:00 in General Thread

Actually Mayhem, almost all of my game design exp over the years is already with MMOs, though they are 2d and done in dmscript. I also have some C++ exp just haven't used C++ much for game design yet cept on a mud back in the day. So yea I have been doing much smaller simpler projects for over 10 years now and looking to step up my game. Plus I am pretty dedicated.. Been wishing for VRMMOs since I first saw .hack and now that the Oculus dev kits are out, I would really like to get into VRMMORPG design.

So basically I am just looking for a good Game Engine that would allow me to make the leap from 2d to 3d + Oculus. Preferably something that is either free or not too insanely expensive. I figure that my first step is to figure out what tools I need to bring my vision to life, and me second step would be to learn how to use those tools.

I like the way the Unreal Engine looks, but I think it is really expensive if I ever got to the point where I wanted to draw in some money for expenses. Would be free to play but might could offer some aesthetic stuff for real money.

I love the way the graphics look in cube and how the map editing looks but it sounds like it may be a pain to figure out how to link multiple smaller maps together and 1 huge map would likely have loading issues.

If it wouldn't be too hard make a way to switch maps in-game I might could create a portal system to transport users between maps.

#3: Sorry for the newb questions.

by Yukari on 08/23/2013 18:05 in General Thread

Hi there, I have a project in mind that I would like to get started on. Still in the baby steps right now, just looking around for a good game engine and trying to figure out what all software/hardware I would need and what I would need to learn to make this project succeed.

I basically want to make a low-budget indie VRMMORPG using the Oculus. The game itself would be a lot like the anime Sword Art Online. I read somewhere that Cube won a contest for a free Oculus dev kit and may be offering some kind of support for it in the future.

I have a some experience with game design and programming already, though that is mostly dmscript and just a bit of c++ that never got used for game developement so I am looking to step up my game and will definitely have a lot of learning to do. Any really good book or tutorial suggestions are welcome, though I can also look for those on my own.

Mostly what I would like to ask about though is would it cost anything to use cube for my game engine to create and publish a VRMMO? The game would be free to play, possibly could offer special aesthetics stuff for real money but not sure about that yet.

Also how feasible would it be to create something like this with cube? Something that would work with Oculus, an mmo so likely multiple maps strung together, guns removed/melee added, levelup and skill systems, custom anime-fantasy style graphics, ect.

Not asking for any help on the project itself, just trying to get pointed into the right direction. Willing to do all the learning and work on my own, though after I have a stable playable base then it might could be nice to add another dev or 2. But not before there has been a good bit of work done on the base and a playable demo to show off.

So yea, sorry for the newb questions. x,x

#4: Re: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by suicizer01 on 12/20/2012 14:56 in General Thread

Let's see what happens with it...

#5: Re: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by theintercooler001 on 12/20/2012 14:54 in General Thread

@Suicizer

I completely understand where you are coming from. Revelade Revolution was our very first game as a development team; it was my first time really modding the Cube 2 engine. There was a lot of things that could have been improved. We did update are license text file as well as I've been removing anything that isn\\\'t used or that doesn't allow us to use.

With Broken Shield I went about it differently, I removed all texture folders and files as well as models and folders. The only things that will be in the game are things someone on the team made. I cleaned up the directory as well making a texture folder for the textures and a world model folder for all the models. With the changes so far I shaved off well over 200mb of data that wasnt needed.

It is going to be a long road ahead before we even get in to alpha testing. Most of the coding I was told will take about 6 months to do, we have already started work on two maps in the game.

I know there has been a lot of talk on the forums about an rpg so I figured I'd post seeing how some people were interested to see if anyone would like to give us a hand so we can speed up the process a bit.

@Q009

RR is our first person shooter named Revelade Revolution it is a mix between Sauer, RE and TF2. We have different classes in game each with their own weapon sets as well has speed/armor/health buffs and debuffs. We have two firing options on all weapons as well as a first in the cube 2 engine a healing weapon you can use to heal your teammates.

We have added a few new game types online like survival mode (round based dmsp but now works in multiplayer) as well as infection.

More info on the game and a link to the download can be found at http://theintercoolergames.com/revelade-revolution/

Ed

#6: Re: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by Q009 on 12/20/2012 13:21 in General Thread

RR?

#7: Re: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by suicizer01 on 12/20/2012 09:47 in General Thread

I keep wondering if this game as much as organized as RR. If it is, well I foresee a lot if effort will have to be spent getting al license-issues fixed.

#8: Re: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by theintercooler01 on 12/20/2012 01:58 in General Thread

I understand there have been a lot of posts about it. We have a indiedb with whats done so far.

http://www.indiedb.com/games/broken-shield

Hope it helps

Ed

#9: Re: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by Q009 on 12/19/2012 23:56 in General Thread

Well, considering we've seen A LOT of posts like that: pic or didn't happen =P

Either way I wish you best of luck with your project although I don't hide you could do yourself a favor and instead of writing everything from scratch you could use somewhat prepared platform, created for games on Cube Engine 2: http://www.octaforge.org/
Just wait for beta, it will come out soon

#10: Making an MMORPG out of the Cube 2 engine.

by intercooler on 12/19/2012 22:36 in General Thread

Summary:Broken Shield is an open-source, PvP, medieval-style RPG based on the game Eisenstern powered by the Cube 2 Engine. Explore different worlds with other players and enter battlegrounds to complete certain objectives and win experience and level up.

Graphics:

1- A new HUD: New style HUD and free mouse look. Icons on the HUD will be clickable as well as numbered and accessible via keyboard shortcuts.

The HUD will also provide a mini map which can be expanded to give a larger, more detailed view over the world or battleground.

HUD drawing code is written in Lua for easy customization.

2- Major UI enhancements *:

We will make the GUI a little less like the one in Sauerbraten and a little more like that in Half-Life 2. The new GUI will be more powerful and user friendly, allowing multiple windows to be open at once which can be moved around the screen, and with a fixed main menu.

The GUI will be powered by Lua, making it as interactive as the old GUI but providing more possibilities and offering new features beyond its capabilities.

Gameplay:

1- Online questing*: You will be quest and enguage in battle-grounds online with other players.

You can also battle with other players on servers in different themes and objective-based matches with different goals. Battlegrounds will be written in Lua and sent by the server to each client at connect time.

2- Talent trees *: Each talent tree is broken up to 4 sections. Each section has its own spells/talents. As you train you’ll get lower in the same tier with more powerful spells/talents of the same type.


3- Clans and guild support *: See who’s online from any clan, where they are, and chat with them if you like. Built-in IRC support will allow you to chat with anyone, anywhere even while playing.

Engine:

1- Engine upgrade: We have upgraded the engine used in Broken Shield to that in Revelade Revolution, which is several years newer. This means that almost all changes we do in either of the games will be applicable to the other.

We have also added a “definitions.h” file that defines all important game constants, more specifically string literals, allowing one to change the name of the game by a few strings in this file.

2- Adding multiplayer support *: One of the firt things to do is to add a network module to the game (besides the one in the engine), allowing for client-server communication.

This will enable multiplayer much like the one seen in Revelade Revolution, which will grow with the game to offer new features and enhancements.

Modding and extensions: All extensions are written in Lua, giving you a lot of control over different aspects of the game.

You can create your custom images, textures, sounds, and wrap them all up in a mod, and destribute it for players around the world to download and play.

We need coders for lua and xml, as well as people to help with models/animations. We do have two coders currently working on enhancements but with the work load as large as it is having another would be great.

We do plan on releasing the game for windows first but mac as well once we find someone to compile it for us.

For those interested or wish to know more please email me at edward(dot)thomas3(at)yahoo(dot)com or register on our fourms tigwiki.com/forum

#11: Re: MMORPG

by Quin on 09/12/2010 03:36 in General Thread

@redisforever - Read these:

http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=866&start=96

http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=2342

-and-

http://cube.wikispaces.com/How+not+to+start+a+mod
http://cube.wikispaces.com/How+to+approach+modding
http://cube.wikispaces.com/Modding+Guide

#12: MMORPG

by redisforever on 09/12/2010 02:16 in General Thread

I was thinking of making an MMORPG in the Cube 2 engine. Maybe with a map like the_city. http://www.quadropolis.us/node/1055
Unfortunately, I can't do scripting. What do you think? It would be like The Specialists Role play servers. You can get a job, house. Things like that. A life basically.

#13: Re: ..

by Whales ( Dthdealer ) on 07/17/2010 15:38 in The Supreme Cube Engine Game (temp name Slayer)

= = = =
Most likely so, but you'll have to tell me which bits to slightly change because I don't know how to reverse engineer the Cube executable into source code. Would it just be a simple matter of changing the net protocol number?
= = = =

I don't personally know. The networking from the source version works, but AFAIK cannot be played online with/against players with the official binaries and visa-versa.

Here is an excerpt from the readme which came with the source.

= = = =

CHEATING
========
If you want to use cube as a base for a game where the multiplayer aspect is
important and used by a large community, you need to be aware that cube's
thick client - thin server architecture is extremely cheat sensitive. If you
release a cube based game with source code equivalent to the binaries, some
minor changes can give anyone an aimbot or other cheats in online games.
There are several ways to make this less easy, some of which are:

1. only distribute binaries (the ZLIB license allows this). Executables can still
be hacked, but unless you have a really large online community, noone will
probably bother.
2. write a network proxy, such as qizmo used with QuakeWorld (whose sources are
also open source). The proxy is a small closed source program that checksums
the executable, and maybe also some game media. You can then make servers
or game admins request this information and ban cheaters.
3. release the sources with an incompatible network protocol or other changes
compared to the binaries you release.
4. build serious cheat detection into the game. Since all clients are their own
"servers", you can make them all keep track of stats for the other players,
such as health etc. you can make all sorts of consistency checks on shots,
movement speed and items. If the discrepancy for a certain client becomes
too big, all clients but the cheater can send their "vote" to the server
for having him banned. Even better, you can add server side stat checking.

For the cube's own game I chose option 3, i.e. you can only play the official
cube game using the binaries supplied by me, and you can't compile your own clients
for multiplayer use (you can still make custom clients that work with matching
custom servers, or play cube single player maps compatible with the real thing).
This situation is not ideal, but there is no easy way around it.

This scheme is probably very easy to defeat if you are capable of using disassemblers
and packet sniffers, but please contrain yourself and don't ruin the fun of the
cube multiplayer community. Thanks.
= = = =


Back to your post


= = = =
And I wouldn't know about the x64 release. If you could compile a binary for me for a release I would be most pleased, since you compiled it on Linux, which is far more challenging than compiling stuff on Windows (or not, I may just be a tremendous noob).
= = = =

Compiling on Windows is of equivalent difficulty if the code is written well to be cross platform ( using SDL, openGL etc such as Cube uses ). The difficulty only comes when a piece of software is written for only one platform. As long as you don't use any windows specific ( hooks? ) resources ( ie directX, referencing files using the C:\folder\file structure rather than $root/folder/file ) everything will be fine, but I doubt you will even do this by accident with what you are doing here.

As long as the source code you release is the same as the source you used to compile the .exe s you released the problem I referenced in my last post will not exist. Most linuxers that play games seriously on the platform know how to compile games ( to get the latest release earlier normally ) out of curiosity, not necessity.

If you have never used a Linux system before, have a look at Ubuntu, (www.ubuntu.com) which you can download and burn onto a disk. It can be run right off the disc without the need to install ( but extremely slowly in this state ). Just go and idly look at http://www.getgnulinux.org/ for a while.

The advantages cube has ( being written in a cross-platform manner ) also include using the best technology. It is a proven fact that openGL, no matter how much Microhard advertises their latest directX release, gives higher framerates at the same or better quality. Benchmarks are available on the Nvidia site somewhere to prove this. Features such as tessellation as you get closer to objects that Microsoft markets DX11 with have been an openGL extension for years. The only reasons game manufacturers use DirectX is that Microsoft commonly sponsors them and because it is a glitchier and a closed-source API, it is harder to reverse engineer and make cheats for ( than openGL ).

Compiling was once easy for cube under Linux, it is just now the technology is moving on and most of the cube code is outdated. Using an environment like you would use on Windows ( eg Visual Studio ) would fix the problem ( eg Codeblocks:: on Linux ) but most of us prefer to do this:

$ cd DIRECTORYWHERESOURCEIS
$ ./configure # Tells you whether or not you have everything needed installed to compile and sets a few things up to make the process faster
$ make # Compiles the game/software
$ make install # Moves the binaries to the right location and sets everything else that does not need to be compiled up

Modern Linux distributions ( such as Ubuntu ) simply give you a program that gets a list containing tens of thousands of free programs from a repository, and allows you to tick and install them easily. Think of it as a site full of safe free .exe s ranging from document processing suites ( eg OpenOffice ) to 3d modelling software ( eg Blender ) to web browsers ( eg Firefox ) to toy programs to MMORPGs to first person shooters ( eg Cube2 ) etc. Except rather than browsing the website you just have a list in a program you launch from a menu with tens of thousands of free programs in it sorted into categories and maintained so that none of the contain malware.


http://danlynch.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/karmic13.png

Here is a good picture displaying such a program, however it is only showing a few dozen in the list on-screen as it is currently being told to display only the installed packages. My system contains many more ( 100+ ) including full fledged first person shooters such as Nexuix, Sauerbraten and Tremulous as well as a whole office suite, the operating system and graphics editing programs similiar to the adobe suite, but due to the modular ( rather than monolithic ) operation of Linux systems I have only used 7.7gb not including personal documents. Gotta love that. Did I mention I don't need antivirus?

Back on topic, I'm not a reliable person to ask to compile the source from. The article I posted on how to do it is a quick hack that piggy-backs the official release and does not provide full functionality. If I can work out how to solve these issues everything will be fine.

The major issue is the inclusion of the enet system to be statically compiled, meaning it is put inside the main executable. This is neccesary to have the Windows port working but causes havoc years down the road when the included version is heavily outdated. My earlier ravings on the nicety of the cube source do not cover the netcode and lack of commenting ( grrr in some places ) regularly.

Regards, Whales.

On an unrelated note, I've discovered a nickname clash with Whales in the Tremulous community. There I am known as Harpoon.

#14: ..

by SheeEttin on 06/17/2010 20:47 in What happened to Dietmar Pier (DCP)?

His website is down? If you mean dietmarpier.de, no, that's up. All it has now is a user-info-image-link to what looks like a German MMORPG--but I'm fairly sure that'd be dcp's user. (I tried searching that site's forum for that user's name ("tonan"), but apparently the search function is broken. That username doesn't show up in the member list, though.)
It's likely that's his site, as it's his domain, and his name in the title, and the same program was used to generate the current page (Scribe! 2) that was used for the old ones.
The domain name is registered through 1&1, so there's no way of contact through there.

Your best bet, if you really want to get in contact with him, would probably be that MMORPG.

Which hudguns are his, though? The only hudguns I know are the ones used for Cube, the Cube 2 "sci-fi" ones, and the current ones (well, the Solaris ones too, but they don't count).

#15: I might be interested in this project

by Hypocorism on 06/19/2009 10:10 in Destructable maps idea!

I\'m interested in seeing the destructible terrain come into play because there currently exists no (good) sandbox MMORPG. Wurm comes close, but the combat is significantly flawed and no fun. If, as you have said, the light mapping is not a problem in Cube 1, then this would be a good place to start. I\'m interested in putting significant work into getting a mod working where you can destroy parts of the environment. (IE, chop down a tree with an axe, break apart a door, dig a tunnel with a pickaxe/shotgun/whatever). I can do code and also some texturing. I don\'t need to lead the project, I\'d be happy working with someone with the whole destructible terrain vision. We can try to solve the problems inherent as they arise.

#16: Re: Not going to be a MMORPG

by Max of S2D [Fr] on 08/04/2008 11:49 in Would it be possible to make an MMORPG with this?

I laugh and agree. :)

#17: Re: Not going to be a MMORPG

by Aardappel_ on 08/04/2008 06:51 in Would it be possible to make an MMORPG with this?

its just a few lines of code extra, of course. Just run server.exe -massive10000 (number of players you want to support), and in the client, set mmorpg = 1

#18: Not going to be a MMORPG

by More Blood, More Fun on 07/31/2008 12:37 in Would it be possible to make an MMORPG with this?

Yeh but I guess once its released it could be modified into a MMORPG.

#19: ..

by yoopers on 07/28/2008 16:58 in Love Discussion

I had wondered if I was the only one in the Sauer community also following this project, nice to see others are as well. :] Seems to me we could take some inspiration from Love and apply it to a MMORPG using C2 (and no, I'm not talking about replacing or changing Eisenstern; it's doing what it intends to do).

#20: Re: eisenstern

by scanf on 07/27/2008 00:17 in Would it be possible to make an MMORPG with this?

Do you mean Eisenstern? This is not going to be a MMORPG. More of an old school RPG.

I've been a supporter of turning Eisenstern into a MMORPG but it does not mesh with the direction the devs. are taking.

#21: Re: Real-time

by scanf on 07/10/2008 09:23 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Reveling John - What do you mean turn based MMORPG's?

WOW an Shaiya are not, you get control of the fights. Most are like that. Perhaps you're referring to games like Runescape.

I'd love to help with Eisenstern but I do have problems with Aardappel_ vision. I personally think it's been done before. That's why MMORPG's arrived. The only decent single player RPG in recent years was Fable.

#22: Re: Real-time

by Reveling John on 07/10/2008 09:03 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

I'm also a big advocate of real-time combat. My biggest turn-off to modern MMORPGs is the turn-based, watch-meaningless-animations confrontations with low-rate npc's. "Rune"-like or "Jedi Outcast"-like melee combat is the way to go if we want to experience spontaneous, fun confrontations. That's my 2-cents anyhow.

#23: ..

by MyUnderpantsAreOnFire on 06/25/2008 07:26 in Why "Sauerbraten"?

I bet that Aard is working on a MMORPG branch of Saurbraten that is called "Sauercrowd" ;)

#24: A few more ideas

by tman_elite on 04/18/2008 03:18 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

I realize this thread is like dying or whatever but I'm really looking forward to any progress that's being made in the rpg. I have a few more suggestions. First of all, make it an mmorpg. Haha that's funny, now for the real stuff. The things that I personally would like to see implemented are:

1. Save game (I know it's already being discussed, so I hope this will implemented soon.)

2. Hudgun support (pass the pass of the hudgun as an argument to the melee and ranged weapons as well as one hudgun for all spells (hands).)

3. Some new spell things
> Add spells with durations, like damage 4hp/sec for 5 seconds or increase max health for 20 seconds (this can be done with "sleep" but it gets messed up when you get attacked or whatever I think.)
> Add splash damage to spells

4. A few little things
> Have the inventory show how much ammo is left for a ranged weapon
> If you have more than one of an item, have them stack in the inventory. For ranged weapons, just add the total amount of ammo left.
> NPCs don't seem to fight back when a monster (or even the player sometimes) hits them

5. While I like the idea about Eisenstern being a collection of "mods," with each map (or "world") having its own monsters, items, etc., I think that there should be one (or a few) "vanilla" Eisenstern worlds.

#25: Questions

by ruhtraeel on 03/16/2008 06:49 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Hey, I just played the demo of the RPG today, and I was wondering, would it be like an online mmorpg with a huge world and real-time fighting? That would be GODLY O_o. I was also wondering that would the guns be really expensive or would they be the basic weapons, instead of melee ones? I was thinking the guns would be really good, but expensive.

#26: ..

by Hirato Kirata on 03/09/2008 03:25 in I need a little help downloading Cube2?

While you're all suddenly so fascinated by MMORPGs, eternal lands is about 80MB, and that's not including the sound and music packs. Planeshit is about 250 MB. they both also quite nicely have linux clients as well. and I think OSX too.

#27: #22: Re: this sucs

by w$$a$elect on 03/08/2008 19:49 in I need a little help downloading Cube2?

BTW. talking about MMORPG's I've been playing "Shaiya" for a few weeks. I'm very impressed with this game. Yes, the download is ~700MB and then it updates after the install, this adds another 200 or so MB.

Having said this it's basically a free ripoff of WOW. I think the company makes money by selling rare items for cash via a points system.

Anyway if you're into this type of game it's worth a look :)

#28: anyone like the inventory weight idea?

by w$$a$elect on 03/08/2008 08:54 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

yes sounds great to me.

I'd really like to see an effort or project to make this an mmorpg. nothing beats it :) The Cube 2 engine rocks! It makes a great 3D environment for this kind of game.

#29: Re: ..

by Quin on 01/05/2008 03:34 in Sauerbraten MMO

Follow up. This has also been discussed several times before, the forum does instruct you to search before asking a question:

http://www.cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_search&keywords=mmorpg

#30: no way

by Hirato Kirata on 01/05/2008 03:03 in Sauerbraten MMO

similiar things have been suggested, but this is simply out of the question.
Sauerbraten is free, as in free speech. also Sauerbraten is an FPS, so that completely takes turning it an MMORPG out of the question.

Also Runescape is one of the lamest games I've ever played.

Also if you think I'm being mean, wait till a few of the other forum members get here

~Hirato Kirata

#31: Re: Multiplayer?

by Hirato Kirata on 12/26/2007 08:42 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

The best I can so to that is that it's an RPg, not an MMORPG.

besides, nothing beats a good RPG like fallout to which no equivalents have been released yet since its successor

~Hirato Kirata

#32: >.<

by Deathbreak911 on 12/26/2007 01:30 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Aardappel, I know what you mean. And most idiots do say that they want to make a MMORPG, which is fine. As long as they keep trying they will learn that they are going to make a ORPG, not a MMORPG, and slowly the game will get scrapped, and they will make another one, and scrap the current one, and make another, untill they finally have something good to work with. I'm not going to say all will eventually have a good ORPG, or even a good percent, I will say that a good 10% will make something decent that will eventually tap out at 50 members, and that's really just fine. Some games made by these people turn out fun, I've played some.

#33: Some points to consider...

by Eternl Knight on 07/09/2007 11:25 in Sauerbraten is sick

{Sauer isn't a modification of something else like Torvald's kernel was}

I call "bullshit" on this one. First of all, Torvalds Kernel (otherwise know as Linux) was written from scratch using concepts learnt (not "copied") from Minix. His kernel wasn't a modification so much as a new implementation based on fundamental concepts central to operating system design. A simple example of this, Minix is micro-kernel based whereas Linux is monolithic.

If one is to put Linux into the category of "software modification", then Sauer squarely falls into this category as well.

Secondly, I have been reading the forums every couple of days (it isn't THAT busy after all) for a while now and, honestly, I have yet to see Aardappel make a nice (i.e. non-aggressive or non-snippy) reply. I might have missed one, but on the whole I think even that proves my point. Judging solely from Aardappel's comments on the forum (my sole source of non-hearsay evidence on the guy), I would have to say that were I trying to "help out" - I would be put off VERY quickly. I am personally interested in the code for extending into shared online worlds (no, not another MMORPG *grin*).

IF Aardappel wanted to make this a "community project", yes he would need to be a little more polite to the people asking things on the forums (or at least less snippy/aggressive). However, as I see it - he is NOT interested in making this a community project. He is simply interested in making available his own PERSONAL project for other people to use/abuse as they see fit (so long as the license is respected of course).

As such, I can understand his frustration at some of the posts I see him replying to. The "readme" for the code states:
"Sauerbraten is not a commercial product, it is merely the author's idea of a fun little programming project". Keeping this in mind, perhaps some people need to remember that Sauer is Aardappel's "fun little programming project", not the "community-developed octree gaming engine". This may or may not ring true for everyone (even Aardappel himself), but it does seem to fit the facts as I can see them.

#34: Einsteim MMORPG

by xgmx on 06/20/2007 06:38 in Most Wanted Feature

The best idea ever for Einsteim, make it a MMORPG, within a year it will be more popular than World of WarCraft and RuneScape combined (and Battlefield 2 and 2142)


ok maby not tha popular but everyone here will like it more than some boring old singleplayer side scroller.

#35: Re: ..

by eihrul on 06/03/2007 08:24 in Idea for next update

You're overanalyzing the situation. The reason they cheat is REALLY simple: they enjoy it. That's all.

The psychology of it is funny, because if you look at it, it is EXACTLY the same as, say, a MMORPG player. A MMORPG player spends all his time trying to acquire stuff that makes his character better than other characters. Most even try to avoid doing the work for that: they just run scripts to do it for them, or buy characters.

Now, his (hypothetical MMORPG player) Sword of Uber Slaying + 3 is really cool (it's uber) UNTIL everyone else has it. Then he's no longer special. He doesn't have any power over anybody anymore, so it stops being fun.

Well, hey, remind you of something... cheating? If you look at it this way, it's even more depressing, because you can see that legions of gamers have this same mentality, and the only thing that distinguishes the cheater from the non-cheater is one lacks empathy (cf: sociopath).

So, take a huge population of gamers... Focus in on the sociopaths just within that, and what do you get? Still a huge population of assholes to contend with.

This is the great thing about the internet: it has empowered people who are too chicken-shit to be real life sociopathic criminals to still get their jollies off.

#36: Re: 2 SPRPG || 2 MMORPG

by tentus_ on 06/01/2007 15:11 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Aaaaaaaand I just go the traumatic image of an ogro in a short skirt bouncing around. Thanks for that.

XD


(Am I the only one that pictures us all as ogros? Or is that some really weird holdover from multiplayer that is specific to me?)

#37: Re: 2 SPRPG || 2 MMORPG

by shadow,516 on 06/01/2007 03:01 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

:puts on bra and lipstick:

Gimme a W!
Gimme an O!
Gimme a U!
Gimme a T!
Gimme an E!
Gimme an R!
Yay, Aardappel!!!

#38: Re: 2 SPRPG || 2 MMORPG

by Aardappel_ on 05/31/2007 22:34 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

it is mainly a technological decision. the complexity difference between the two is huge, and anyone thinking that they are easily going to "mod" eisenstern into an MMO is a certified idiot. Which doesn't mean we won't try ourselves, but we'll see about that later.

The reason a game like WoW is successfull is because it actually is a lot more like a single player RPG where you can hang out with other players. So the genres are converging. I would say the biggest fun of an MMO is not actually the "MM" part of it, but the "coop sp rpg" part of it, i.e. as always, playing a game coop is a lot of fun, and rpgs are no exception.

So I see that as potentially the first step for eisenstern: make it a coop sp game (which is server-wise much more manageable). Think of it as an instance-only MMO. Then a full MMO can grow from there.

#39: 2 SPRPG || 2 MMORPG

by MeatROme on 05/31/2007 15:43 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

The /.-ers are discussing the pros and cons of either:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/29/2024248

I know Eisenstern will be SP by default - and personally I agree with a lot of the comments in the mentioned thread on /. that speak of the benefits therein.
But I'm also curious how soon somebody is going to take Eisenstern to a multiplayer-game.

#40: Re: ..

by Eivets on 04/29/2007 21:55 in SauerWorlds

"I like the RealNitro idea of decentralized servers. Helps to balance load. However, the login/userdatabase can still be centralized. Since this information is requested only a few times, and it is a short request, I think it can be centralized."

I agree, that it would be easy to decentralize the login servers. All major MMORPG have centralized login servers or at least a centralized database and many shard servers. But if you want to have some kind of money or experience points etc. you need to trust all servers.

"Congratulations, Eivets, for your work on that "rollback" system. I haven't tried it, but I understood pretty well how you described it. Looks good. (even though I will miss the "diff" feature present in wikis)"

Thanks. And yes a diff would be nice but would be slightly difficult ;-)

"Another suggestions would be to add some type of arrow or something (in front of player), pointing to the 3D position of the next/previous modification. I say this because it is really easy to miss the (small) changes on a moderate or complex map."

That should be doable.

#41: ..

by Julius on 04/19/2007 21:40 in SauerWorlds

Yeah that is a cool idea. I have been toying with the idea of proceduarly and user created mmo worlds too for some time. IMHO that is the only way a open source MMORPG could really work.

The biggest problem with your idea is that it totally breaks the game aspect of SB and turns it into a virtual editable world (like second life?).
But I guess it could be doable pretty quickly with the code we already have in SB.

But I think a system where the world creation is actually part of a real game would be much more productive and a lot more fun too.

It would need a proper background story, like a world that is under constant attack by some time/space fabric dissolving extra dimensional aliens or someting, and the players have to extent the little that is left of the universe by waiving time and space...while fighting the aliens with big guns :p

It would need a different way of editing though, where more stuff is done procedurally and editing feels less like.. well "3D modeling". And it would need to be integrated into the gameplay mechanics (like power/money etc to build).
And it would be cool if building something is a certain way, like realisticly pysically stable, or is some abstract certain extendable rule following way, it would actually increase the "game value" of the structure. In that way there would be a certain puzzle/tetris like gameplay mechanic as another layer of the game.

Sorry for the long rant, and no I haven't got a playable alpha version of that, nor even started with it ;)

#42: Re: ..

by Drakas on 03/06/2007 08:19 in Most Wanted Feature

You realise that Runescape is one of the worst MMORPGs ever created?

#43: Re: ..

by Drakas on 01/03/2007 11:42 in Commercial MOD For Sauer....

You're a total troll and lamer, so shut the f*** ** **** **** ********.
MMORPGs are total waste of time, like you talking this. why are you saying "instead"? Some once-again-******-mmo-rpg is not going to beat a high quality FPS game. In your dreams, ***.

#44: Re: ..

by Janett. on 01/03/2007 09:14 in Commercial MOD For Sauer....

Thats why I need to build a team of coders and so,If I get to have enough people on my team I swear that it will beat SauerBraten and Aard will hail the Star Trek MMORPG Instead of Sauer,This FPS Game is getting old anyway *sigh*

#45: Re: ..

by ethan592 on 01/02/2007 23:37 in Commercial MOD For Sauer....

unless you can code, your not going to make a mmorpg. and unless you have been coding for a long time, your still not going to make an mmorpg. and do you realize how big of an undertaking changing just the graphics and sounds is?

#46: Hm

by cohadar on 12/08/2006 15:32 in Most Wanted Feature

Yes I noticed gravity and water are not acting realistic too.

I think this can easily be implemented.

I also think that people who code the game are currently overburdened, so I will not press on them.

Being programmer myself I wanted to code that gravity but never seems to find time
(programming eats time more than mmorpgs
believe it or not)
So if it is not added by 15 januar
I promise to add this things myself

#47: No.

by eihrul on 12/08/2006 06:40 in 2006-12-04 "gui edition" release is out!

Neither me nor Wouter are at all interested in a MMORPG. We like SRPGs much more.

#48: Hmm

by Pxtl on 11/28/2006 22:36 in Could the Sauer engine top Second Life?

Well, keep in mind that one of the features of Second Life is its scriptability - for example, there are "conventional" MMORPGs within Second Life.

I suppose you could make a P2P-ish version of SL where players serve their own "zones" and very limited content is allowed to travel between zones. The problem SL faced was that the script system can be exploited to create plagues of monsters that hog system resources.

Probably the best approach would be something not like full-out SL, but simply a system more like conventional Sauerbraten, except that the map on one server is physically connected to a map on another server, so you can walk from one into another. "seeing" into the next server would just then be graphical, and only a minimal subset of scripting (primarily data-storage) would be allowed to function on servers that are not specifically running that script.

Either way, MMO-architecture is a freakishly hard task, and most intermediate approaches don't scale.

#49: Re: ...

by Eivets on 11/28/2006 21:53 in Could the Sauer engine top Second Life?

"Sounds interesting. I was thinking more about a 3D chatroom that the user can customize (basically what SL is) rather than an MMORPG"

Yeah, I'm currently evaluating, if it makes sense to develop more in that direction.. Fore a classical MMORPG, the cooperative editing does not make too much sense...

#50: Re: ...

by Eivets on 11/28/2006 21:53 in Could the Sauer engine top Second Life?

"Sounds interesting. I was thinking more about a 3D chatroom that the user can customize (basically what SL is) rather than an MMORPG"

Yeah, I'm currently evaluating, if it makes sense to develop more in that direction.. Fore a classical MMORPG, the cooperative editing does not make too much sense...

#51: Re: ...

by SolidAndShade on 11/28/2006 02:00 in Could the Sauer engine top Second Life?

Sounds interesting. I was thinking more about a 3D chatroom that the user can customize (basically what SL is) rather than an MMORPG. SL-type games don't involve grinding for money or levels, and combat only occurs in certain areas where scripts facilitate it, so the only addiction potential comes from the social interaction. The main thing that interests me about such games is creating new content, and the Cube engine's better suited to that in many ways than the SL engine. Second Life has a very low ceiling to the number of primitives you can have in a given area, whereas with Cube's landscape modeling system even highly complex forms can be quickly downloaded from a server.

#52: Re: Easily.

by Eivets on 11/27/2006 21:18 in Could the Sauer engine top Second Life?

I agree partly. It's usually one of the two alternatives: You are absolutely bored because everything is basically the same, always. Or you are totally addicted and spend most of your time in the game. For professional reasons, I played several of those mmorpg and I got bored quickly in all cases. Maybe because I have a First Life (tm). But developing such a system is where the real fun is ;-)

#53: Re: um...

by metlslime on 10/10/2006 21:38 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

"People don't understand what an insane engineering effort making a solid MMORPG is. Pretty much 100% of people on the net who say they will be making an MMORPG are dumbasses who don't understand game development (yes, 100%.. those few people who DO understand it are a rounding error)." - Aard

My day job is making an MMORPG. Let me assure you that even the professionals find it challenging. :)

#54: it is not excluded...

by Aardappel_ on 08/11/2006 20:55 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

that eisenstern SOME DAY will include coop or evolve into something MMORPG like. But we will FIRST make a very polished and complete SP RPG, and THEN we will consider our options. So lets talk about this again in a year from now :)

#55: Re: um...

by Passa on 08/11/2006 08:14 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Oblivion is a perfect example. I tried the WoW 14 day trial and I can tell you its nothing special. It felt like any other RPG except I had real people rather than NPCs playing.. so that meant laaaag and alot of stupid tards playing.

It seems everyone wants to make their own MMORPG these days. Here is a perfect example (lol this is so funny, this tard posted about it on my ISPs forums :P)

Wow, it was hard to find the link I realised... the forum admins deleted it as spam thankfully :) but I found it in my history :P

Funny as: http://www.freewebs.com/noironline/
"It's kinda a 'Work in progress' game .. we are looking for a programmer/3d designer or two"
lol

#56: um...

by Aardappel_ on 08/11/2006 05:31 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

I know MMORPGs are popular... no strike that, WoW is popular.. all the 100 other MMORPGs die a silent death.

Have you heard of a game called Oblivian? It lead the PC and 360 sales charts for quite some time. People still enjoy single player rpgs. I know I do. Watch for Gothic III when it comes out....

People don't understand what an insane engineering effort making a solid MMORPG is. Pretty much 100% of people on the net who say they will be making an MMORPG are dumbasses who don't understand game development (yes, 100%.. those few people who DO understand it are a rounding error).

Now if anyone could pull it off it would be me and eihrul, between us we have more networking/database/systems experience than most any pair of programmers, but frankly, we don't want to. A SP RPG will allow us to get to something playable quickly, and we'll have a wonderfull game for everyone to play and create new stuff for. An MMORPG will be an endless struggle. We're being pragmatic, but I think we're alone on this planet...

#57: Re: ..

by Passa on 08/10/2006 23:39 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

I thought the same thing.

Now that Eisenstern is coming along nicely, and its a RPG.. there are just going to be more and more 'MMORPG yay' posts.

#58: ..

by makkE on 08/10/2006 21:28 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Ketamine, slow down..

Why not mmorpg: because an mmorpg takes a huge amount of time, a huge amount of code, and last but not least a couple of GOOD servers that prolly cost some $.

You might, before making assumptions and suggestions, read the design document, it explains just about everything.

Plus you should get to know the engine better maybe, because then you would understand that at this point day/night is not possible.

You are free to use the source code for whatever you want, but MAKE SURE you read the readme.html entirely. (yes , _read_ it)
The code is opensource, the media is mostly not, mind that.

Btw, 276 polies for an object the size of your foot max, in a huuge map that holds hundreds of objects and enemys is WAY off.. a mushroom prop for sauer should be 30-50 polys max.. the less the better.

#59: ..

by Ketamine on 08/10/2006 20:08 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

Look this is redicilous if your going to make it single player - whats the point in developing it?

Some really nice content (maps, models etc) have been made for it and your just going to churn it into some boring ass single player game?

I am more than willwing to help - but I only want to help make it an MMORPG not a single player game.

At the moment it's looking great; I like how you can see the health float off people when you shoot them - I was thinking this could be an exciting new breed of real-time FPS and RPG gaming but I guess I was wrong?

Can I atleast have permission to friendly-fork the Eisenstern engine to create an online build?

I could work on Eisenstern and help with the falling damage and I was thinking with the player blocking your view; if the xhair is pointing at your player model alpha it to 128 so you can see through it.

But then I could friendly fork it evey stable release for an online build where it basically had a login server - server side stats/money and server side night/day system.

I could also server side the player health and ammo - there wouldent really be any noticable difference in the smoothness of the game netcode at all.

My main idea for this project was to make an user-friendly quest builder like the map builder you have in Saur; also a Guild Creation system so players can make guilds for a certain about of in-game money.

#60: ..

by Ketamine on 08/10/2006 19:46 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

What the hell!? Why not?!! This would make a billiant online MMORPG and a server sided clock and login system wouldent effect the speed and smoothness of the netcode at all.

Btw here is the Shroom I modelled and skinned:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7294/shroomqn2.jpg

What do you think?


As I was saying. This is perfect of an MMORPG why kill it and make it some boring offline shit?

#61: Re: Mapper-City!?

by Grinder on 08/05/2006 11:46 in Map Editing

Sounds like a killer for RAM. But isn't that pretty much the concept of those MMORPGs that actually let you live there?
A small (1024) map with that concept might on the other hand make an amazing deathmatch map.

#62: Re: just FYI -- SP

by Eivets on 07/08/2006 02:09 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

If have now setup an initial web page for my MMORPG project. You can see it at http://www.radig.com/sauerbraten/index.html

#63: Re: ..

by Passa on 06/07/2006 14:08 in Sauerbraten copyrights

Yes, we know. An MMORPG... good luck.

#64: lol..

by Passa on 06/07/2006 08:44 in Sauerbraten copyrights

thojoh370, you've got your work cut out for you now. So far.. you have started work on a MMORPG without a programmer, as you state on the site and you are now also working on another stand-alone Sauerbraten mod..
http://tpj.productions.googlepages.com/alert

I can't see how you are possibly going to manage two mods at once ;)

#65: Re: ..

by Passa on 06/04/2006 00:48 in Sauerbraten copyrights

No, I've tested his MMORPG, saves my state in a persistent world etc, its all good :)

First REAL MMORPG built off Sauerbraten :P

#66: Re: lol...

by Passa on 06/03/2006 11:57 in Sauerbraten copyrights

It is addon, just so sad that its ANOTHER attempt at a MMORPG. Simply using the search function on the forums and he would see HOW many people have come up with an idea like his before.

#67: Re: lol...

by Aardappel_ on 06/03/2006 04:15 in Sauerbraten copyrights

great, there goes another one. MMORPG, no programmers, no content, but a fancy website. Sounds familiar.

Maybe I should create a standard "cease and decist" email template: "Hi. I see you are creating a MMORPG based on my game. You haven't read the documentation at all, have you? ..."

#68: lol...

by Passa on 06/03/2006 00:34 in Sauerbraten copyrights

No need to worry aardappel, its just another attempted MMORPG mod..

http://tpj.productions.googlepages.com/

They already have instructions on how to download the 'Sauerbraten Engine' so that their game can run.

#69: ...

by Aardappel_ on 05/28/2006 01:57 in Compiling the Sauerbraten sources

als je niet weet hoe je c++ code compileert, betwijfel ik ten zeerste dat je ook maar enige kans hebt om mmorpg te maken. Leer eerst maar c++ met een klein projectje, is mijn suggestie.

#70: just FYI -- SP

by Aardappel_ on 05/13/2006 21:11 in Eisenstern : The RPG project

the reason we're doing SP is because the multiplayer programming effort for such an extensive list of features is gigantic.

Everything that has to be synchronized over the network makes the programming effort go x10. Now that is doable for something as simple as an FPS (but even there its hard work), but for an RPG its immense.

By making it SP we can keep all data local, and many features we will be able to implement relatively quickly. Unlike 99% of the people on the interweb, I have some pretty solid experience with knowing how much effort certain tasks take in game development. I also know how much resources we have on average, and I know I want to have something playable not in 10 years but in months. That knowledge drives a lot of the design decisions.

Once we have a solid and fun SP RPG, we can always look if we can make it coop or even pseudo-MMORPG (hate to say the word), there's noone saying we have to stick with SP forever... but doing SP first is just the smart thing to do, unless we want to fail like everyone else.

#71: ..

by makkE on 04/30/2006 14:38 in General Thread

It will be singleplayer. No MMORPG.
That´s all that´s known atm.
There are plans for it, but Aardapple hasn´t made them public yet, because it´s not yet the time. See also:

http://www.cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=596

#72: Re: ..

by asdff on 03/11/2006 22:54 in compiling under Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition

i am the #1 spammer eh?
so that means i post in the forums everyday?


nice to know that your "MMORPG" has just started and is ALREADY WORKING WELL!!

you are amazing!
the quickest MMORPG developer in history!

#73: Re: ..

by boilover_atwork on 03/11/2006 01:34 in compiling under Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition

omg asdff these arent ur forums, go bitch around sum other forum allright cos no 1 wants u ere okay? btw ur the #1 spammer and aggrevtr allright?? u got that?

btw i started my MMORPG mod people and is workin well, ill keep u posted on how its going, a website and some screenshots will b comin soon.

#74: Re: ..

by Passa on 02/28/2006 12:59 in MMORPG?

why are there so many people wanting to do MMORPG mods. is it a craze at the moment because i personally think the whole idea of a MMORPG is gay. MMORPGs make you invest so much time of your life gaining levels and killing people to get items. its like the more you play the higher your cred and people in the game respect you more.

#75: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 02/27/2006 21:00 in General Thread

no, we're not making an mmorpg because unlike 99.9% of the world, we understand what is feasible and what will fail. When I start a project I like to know I will be able to see a polished result.

The RPG will be singleplayer, not even coop or whatever. The reason is that as soon as you make something networked, complexity raises by 10. Which is fine for a simple FPS, but this RPG is going to have a LOT of gameplay objects. We'll be able to crank out cool gameplay much faster this way.

#76: Re: ..

by Passa on 02/27/2006 20:51 in General Thread

what is it with all these MMORPG people. how is a multiplayer FPS open source game a good candidate for a MMORPG?

#77: ..

by Tomate on 02/27/2006 18:13 in General Thread

Technically speaking, could it be possible to do an "small" mmorpg that some players/prgrammers could continue builting it while there are players in it? As the cube engine do it in multiplayer?

Could it be a dream came true?

#78: ..

by Passa on 02/18/2006 22:18 in Sauerbraten Colaboration

maKKe:
i never said sauerbraten was not a game, i was pointing out this should be a 'game' with complete new content rather than a mod. when i said wait for a stable release i was saying to wait for the next release until coding anything. the difference (i was hoping) between this idea and another of the MMORPG ones is that SilentFox suggested a community project that everyone gets behind.

Aardappel:
i didnt say that i wanted to make my OWN game and neither did SilentFox. he actually suggested a community project. and its not like im trying to create my 'idea' or SilentFox is trying to create his 'idea'. all i have put forward is that it should be single-player and should have a frontend. so im not trying to take your 'FPS maker' and turn it into a 'game' i can call my own.

the first thing my friends say when they see the game is "omg, what is that ogre thing man its gay". an easy to use simple 'game' to promote sauer would be cool and help get sauer to more people. the 'game' could be singleplayer only, and the multiplayer features could even just be cut out of the menus.cfg file. whenever the game frontend is quit, it directs the person to the cube engine homepage.

if this project was helped by people on these forums, it could be a really good way of promoting sauer. the problem with getting content? youre all right, its too hard to make and very hard to find any that you can use legally. so this 'game idea' will probably also slip off the recent thread list, just like the other thousands of ideas before it.

#79: Re: ..

by Passa on 01/08/2006 13:32 in Strife mod

i downloaded the original strife game to see what it was like. man what a waste of time. why make a mod to replicate such a terrible game? but i must say, give ende a break. he came here not to promote some crazy far-fetched idea but to ask if anyone else has an intrest in strife and if so if they wanted to help him. not like the other threads with people wanting to do mmorpgs and stuff. i rekon this could succeed as a singleplayer mod. the hardest part(s) would be new models and (only if you want to) modifing the source. i rekon u should do this in cube only because both engines would most likely have the same limitations unlike sauerbraten, thus forcing you to follow a similar level design, if what you want is to do an accurate representation of strife. but if i were you i would be doing an extention of strife. hence i would use sauerbraten. if you decide to use sauerbraten, id be happy to help you with mapping.

#80: Re: Sauer as basis for MMORPG

by Eivets on 11/16/2005 20:51 in Sauerbraten engine development

I was expecting not to get cvs access; I would handle it the same way ;-)

It's good to know, that the refactoring is ongoing, I can well live with this. If I come across further problems, I will let you know!

#81: Re: Sauer as basis for MMORPG

by Aardappel_ on 11/16/2005 09:31 in Sauerbraten engine development

Hi and welcome. Your changes make sense, but the factoring of the gamecode is far from complete, and things may be done quite differently, so there's not a lot of point in making these changes now. Specifically the entity system and how its shared between game and engine may prove to restrictive for most games.. I envision that the RPG we intend to make will use these entities only for playerstarts, lights and mapmodels and such, and use completely own entities for the gameplay.

I suggest for now you keep track of what you had to change on the engine side.. hopefully not a lot.

cvs access: I love to have people help out, but I am rather picky on code... as such only people that have been part of the community for some time and I can tell "get" the idea of sauerbraten get cvs access. So just start using it, show us what you are doing, and who knows we can cooperate more.

#82: Sauer as basis for MMORPG

by Eivets on 11/16/2005 08:51 in Sauerbraten engine development

Hi all,

I am new to this forum so first thanks for the great sauerbraten. I have written a relatively complete 3D engine myself as a basis for writing a (MMO)RPG. But I always had the problem with content generation. So I think I will use sauer instead and port some of my stuff to using it.

To start I have put a scripting engine and some other stuff on it to be the basis for a quest systems etc. Works pretty well thanks to the recent changes which factor out the game related stuff.

Note that I read/skimmed through all the messages in this thread. It is clear that my stuff won't go in the main development branch. I just would like to help to further improve the ability to base other games on sauer.

For my stuff I had to change a small number of things to achieve what I wanted:
- newentity() takes no arguments; I added the type so that different c++ classes can be instantiated for each type if necessary
- writeent, readent do not take the gzFile which I think was intended; what could they do otherwise?
- the menu system is quite nice and I plan to use it for a lot of things. However I would use a lot of dynamic menus. As such a function for deleting menus is missing. Additionally, it would make sense to have an identifier for the menu in addition to the name, which is displayed as the first line of the menu.

What do you think of these changes? Do you want them? Should I prepare a patch or could you give me cvs access?

#83: Re: a more diverse sauer community

by corpusc on 10/06/2005 06:45 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

to clear up some of the common misperceptions people will have about my LONGTERM project.....
its NOT AT ALL a mmorpg.
and it is NOT AT ALL like PlanetSide.

i intend to blend the BEST aspects of MMOGs and fast action FPS games.
mmoRPGs and FPS games are at fundamental odds with each other and mostly incompatible. nobody has done it even close to decently yet.
IMO, PlanetSide blends mostly the WORST aspects together. 8)
i dislike the core idea behind rpg combat mechanics. to "simulate" things with statistics that can be fairly easily simulated in proper 3D space. and having a "character" with simulated skills instead of using ACTUAL player skills.
IMO, typical rpg combat mechanics should have died many years ago.

Helhack will have certain RPG aspects which are compatible with FAST ACTION gaming. but there won't be the typical virtual dice rolling combat mechanics. or in ANY game project that
i create for myself
the reasons i decided on Helhack as a first project is:

1) tap into an existing Nethack fanbase that understands and is addicted to the concept of endless, everchanging environments

2) i would rather spend lots of time coding a scheme to generate (at least halfway) decent looking endless content.
rather than spending probably alot MORE time making a finite amount of (30 or so) handcrafted maps that wouldnt take long to finish playing thru

3) can be integrated in my longer term projects as fallback content when all the handcrafted stuff is explored/exhausted, and for people who prefer coop instead of competitive gameplay

where the levels would come into play in Helhack......on the top floor monsters would shoot slowly, fire slow-moving, weak projectiles, move slowly, move simplistically.
at the bottom near the amulet/whatever,
they would fire quickly, fast-moving and/or hitscan weapons, shoot often, doing alot of damage per hit,move quick, duck, dodge etc....

as far as skill aquisition....not sure i would have any....might make running speed improve....jumping height....frequency of jumping ability (at first you couldnt jump that often).....these are all things that wouldnt fit in well IMO into a competitive fragfest and if implemented would only exist to make HelHack more like NetHack.
as far as weapon aquisition, i have a spell system designed that is similar to Ultima Underworld, where you compose spells from runes that each represent some element/action/idea and in different combinations do different things. this would end up being quite a few different runes, and each time you aquire one you get an exponential amount of new spells. so this would mesh pretty well with a more rpg type of weapon aquisition system. altho they likely would not be your typical weak to strong weapons progression.
rather you would always have the potential to do an x amount of damage per second, and the runes just change how that damage is dispersed (refire rates, projectile speed, splash damage radius size (or none) ).
this would give a ton of weapon variety but make sure that the weapons are balanced for fragfests.
if i scale the monster right between easiest to hardest, i dont see a need to scale weapons the same way. just by having more variety of how to disperse the damage gives you more power thru more options.

In subsequent game releases (Helven/whatever) there will be no levelling or character skills affecting you. it will all be real-life skills based for fast duke3d/quake2 style fragging.

i envision my longterm end goal mmofps as being somewhat like Second Life, but with fast action fragging as a fundamental gameplay option from the beginning, where i dont add any general purpose features that would sacrifice fast and smooth action gameplay. fast fragging action trumps all other concerns.
second life has no real fundamental gameplay. everything is created by users pretty much thru their general purpose scripting abilities (which has lots of limitations).

similar to SL, i may not have any NPCs on the surface of the world. they would probably only be in dungeons. the surface would be for pvp fps wars and an immersive atmosphere. dungeons would be where the various runes would be scattered over the world, with some guaranteed (AI) opposition to you getting them easily. so while there wouldnt be any levelling or grinding, there would be a SMALL initial amount of "questing" to help immerse people in the world and give them a purpose to their initial introduction to the game. getting a sense of the world layout and see the various environments. and hopefully force them into running into other players. 8) i am a STRONG believer in the heart of the game being based on "emergent" gameplay. where the players decide their own goals, purposes, quests, team/clanmates. not to have any contrived stories or purposes shoehorned into their gaming time.
that time typically spent on "content" creation should be spent on tools to help players create content for themselves and others.
that way CREATing content BECOMES content itself. and entertaining the other players also becomes content.
tools that help them be able to have somewhat of a "dungeon master" experience.
tools to help them become news reporters, recording and posting interesting happenings or even creating theatrical pieces in the game.
etc, etc....yes, this starts getting into the far frontiers of gaming, things that will take awhile to really actually get to the point of doing.
just pointing out that traditional game designs are all about hardwiring and handcrafting virtually all content for THOUSANDS of players, but only having one company doing it. when there are tons of users out there that would LOVE to be creating the content themselves. the game companies are just wasting their energies, throwing it away into insatiable blackholes of manhour sucking "company created content" paradigms.

i am just showing here my complete and semi-seamless timeline plan from something very realistic (HelHack, small-scale Helven), into something far off and pretty lofty.
cuz i know how it looks when anybody says they are doing ANYthing MMO.
people gloss it over, no matter what ideas are actually expressed, and my plans as stated, and in reality, are FAR FROM YOUR TYPICAL plan.
it is alot more important for me to keep getting work done than put much energy into convincing random net users that i am onto something.

but its worth laying it out a little more in detail in case any other imaginative and visionary coders, can get interested in the idea. perhaps some of the folks already working on their own projects even.
i don't at all believe the typical idea that you have to have a large or even medium-sized company to pull off an MMO. just a different paradigm of content creation/management.

i don't believe you need more than a few artists (modellers, texturists).
and i happen to be the rare coding artist. and i am pretty damn decent. 8) so i will be doing work on art myself, especially with mapping.
afterall, there has got to be an initial starting town/land complete with dungeons. ServerOps can completely remove that and replace with their own if they want.

i DO know that just one coder isnt gonna cut it for an MMO in the long run. 8)
but most people dont have enough imagination to get it sparked thru words. they need some pictures in order to feel that something is real.
i guess i should save this and reword it for my website, for when i have some screenshots/movies that i care to post. i have half a mind to go back to my own original engine and put a little more work into cleaning it up so i can put it up for dl and make some movies showing how editing works in my world. now that i am talking in the ogre3d.org and sauer communities its actually starting to be important to prove things to people, since there are so many pure ideas floating around that nobody gives any serious attention to things that don't have an accompanying .EXE

#84: Re: ..

by makkE on 10/05/2005 12:05 in Sauerbraten engine development

In case by "that mmorpg" you meant the "rpg (wip)" folder in sauer, you might have noticed the WIP in there.
Those are not meant for dming.

Plus, this thread is called "sauerbraten engine developement", not "Sauerbraten MMORPG beta v1.0 feedback"

Asking for a /me comand at this stage is like asking to put a picture on a wall in a house you build when the first wall is just up..

Maybe this might clarify:
http://www.cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action=display_thread&thread_id=596

#85: ..

by Xsaii on 10/05/2005 04:45 in Sauerbraten engine development

How about inserting "/me" commands possibly? I just took a look at that MMORPG and thought about those ridiculously huge maps in the new version of saur.

If the servers had enough players there could basically be roleplaying, intended noone is DMing.

#86: ..

by kaczor on 07/03/2005 17:14 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

i think Sauer engine would handle MMORPG game ... but what a huge server u sould have to handle 900 users or so ... but good idea ...

#87: Re: mmorpg

by Sparr on 06/27/2005 08:23 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

gridscale (?) is an exponent. 2 means each cube is 4 units wide (the current minimum), 3 means 8 units, etc. there is no real reason that 1 (2^1=2), 0 (2^0=1), or even -3 (2^-3=.125) wouldnt work, except that a few spots in the code do comparisons and math on the exponent in order to draw the grid, and you get /0 and other problems

#88: Re: Sauer MMORPG...

by HopFrog on 06/26/2005 06:44 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

You seem to misunderstand me...I'm not anti-open-source...far from it, in fact. I do see where it can be useful/successful. There are also places where, at current moment, it hasn't quite taken hold. The video game market, unfortunately, is not one of those.

So let me go down the list, and make my counterpoints on each of these:

i.) You're absolutely right, client machines are pretty powerful now. However, you're overrating the internet connection of the average internet user quite a bit. The reason that the server-client system in today's games works the way it does is that client connections typically don't have very high upload capacity yet, whereas servers do. This is an issue of dollars, until things change significantly. I doubt it happens any time soon.

ii.) Potential for profits from games IS immense. Games with huge art budgets, franchise attachments, etc. Do you know exactly how small of a percentage of unfranchised, low-budget games have any sort of financial success? Probably about 1% of all commercially released games. I guarantee you that any venture capitalists interested in this are going to do their homework. Now with the editing system, middleware vending is a possibility. But, that's not nearly in the ballpark of what you're thinking.

iii.) Metaverse, huh? Somebody's been reading Snow Crash. :P

iv.) Open-source software has exploded in arenas where a large userbase or amount of content is already accessible. GAIM has a slew of instant messaging mediums to feed off of. OpenOffice would be dead in the water without support for MS file formats. Firefox has...the whole internet (except for CandyStand and a few other select sites that whore various Win-only plugins. Grr!). In other words, what separates this proposition from other open-source projects that have been successful is that essentially you're attempting to build a large userbase from the ground up rather than plugging into one that already exists.

Now let me add a fifth element to this, one that doesn't involve Bruce Willis. (that was horrible. I am sorry.) The MMORPG genre has just a handful of games that have weathered an extended stay. For the amount of work it would take to get one going, the odds of it succeeding are pretty low, whereas with an RPG the chances of it succeeding are pretty high because the quality of play is in no way reliant on a high userbase.

#89: Sauer MMORPG...

by HopFrog on 06/26/2005 02:08 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

I'm with Aard on this...an MMORPG would be, in fact, suicide.

Morgaine: you're right. In Second Life, people do build their own stuff. However, do you really want to play an MMORPG that looks like one of the Sauerbraten demo maps from months ago? The reason I ask is because if you have even a few devious people out there editing away, they can uglify a lot of the world.

Plus, an MMO makes necessary some serious server power, if you intend on it not sucking a lot because of lag.

I hate to say it, but MMORPG and Open-Source project just don't go very well together unless somebody knows someone with money who doesn't care about losing it. They'd be much better off writing a game that doesn't require continuous cashflow, has a more manageable scope, and can actually be finished by about a dozen people.

Done is good. You can be a walking encyclopedia on video game development knowledge, but if you don't have the ability to finish anything, then what good is it? To their credit, Aard and co. have done that 1.9 times now (Sauer seems to be about 90% done, which translates to half done because the last tenth usually takes as long as the first nine.) You'd be wise to listen to them.

#90: MMORPG

by jean pierre on 06/23/2005 13:53 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

I hate it for lags it has extreme big lags

I love becouse it is very cool and talk with each other :)

#91: Re: mmorpg

by shadow592 on 06/22/2005 22:44 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

flamie - the minimum cube size is at 2 right now and can only go down one more level. for vases and such it would be much easier to just use mapmodels. i would be happy to make mapmodels for you guys as well as help with mapping.

#92: Re: sounds good

by Aardappel_ on 06/22/2005 20:52 in Sauerbraten engine development

You're all missing the obvious. Sauerbraten was designed for huge worlds from the start. Scale is not an issue, the only limiting factor is the number of octree nodes.

100 meg of memory can store 3-4 MILLION octree nodes. By comparison, the most detailed maps right now use about 100k nodes, but that is because of insane detail going on. More normal current maps use 10-20k nodes. Using instanced octree nodes for detail in the future will reduce the need for such detail, and a huge RPG or MMORPG world does not need to look as detail as killfactory or roughinery for every inch of it. So that 3 or 4 million can hold a LOT of cool world space.

The only issue is that currently the entire map is converted to vertices on load. That is the only change that needs to be made in the future, that instead it uses a cache of vertices for chunks of the world instead. This is pretty easy, efficient, and will cost no "load time".

#93: Re: mmorpg

by Aardappel_ on 06/22/2005 20:26 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

do you have a website? anything your team members have already produced?

#94: Re: stupid question

by Pxtl on 06/22/2005 20:08 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

MMORPG is Massively Muliplayer Online Role-Playing Game - AKA an over-ambitious project that for some reason every game-dev n00b thinks they should make as their first project.

#95: stupid question

by CC_Machine2 on 06/22/2005 20:06 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

i know this is a bit of a stupid question but what does MMORPG mean/stand for?

#96: re: mmorpg

by Flamie on 06/22/2005 09:30 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

what you are planning to do with sauerbraten (dynamic content, flexible world etc) for a mmorpg a group in sweden is up to doing and hasn't decided on what engine yet (I'm part of that group).

we are considering sauerbraten, but as of now it lacks a few things we need, so we might go with embrace & expand / fork.

If we'd choose to use sauer, we'll start helping out with the maplinking part at first, making it preload the maps that belong on each of the sides of the cube you are in (3x3x3-1 cubes) so that you can seemlessly walk between then without noticing any change.

After that we'd propose a change of minimum cube-size, to make it much smaller, allowing the content creators to model small objects such as vases, plates, books etc.

If you're interested in sharing ideas or just want to discuss you can reach me at roze@roze.mine.nu.

Perhaps it might even be beneficial to join teams (we are ~15 people active now)? (that is, if we share the same goals)

#97: WoW

by Sauerbraten M/MMORPG on 06/22/2005 05:15 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

Gee, I agree with Aard again, plugins would take away the simplicity and damage the code, as it is, i said fll conversion MOD. Not plugin,lol.

AnyWays, the time will come, for now stick with the primary goals, i will still be working on models etc.

And Aard, Please dont let this forum turn into a fight, i hate it when that happens, because it seems to me like that is whats happening.If everyone begins fighting on HOW to do this or Whatever id appreciate it if you close it down.

#98: sauerpg

by ssdd_darkstar on 06/21/2005 23:57 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

fyi, i also think sauerpg should stick to "sauerbraten future development timeline" as much as possible. people interested in sauer/mmorpg will contribute to sauer and help it reach a stage where mmo implementation will not necessarily mean forking. thus, everyone will benefit.

#99: Sauerbraten M/MMORPG

by Sauerbraten M/MMORPG on 06/21/2005 22:14 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

I agree With Aardappel.He Did Write the Engine, We will continue work on the models and world, continuing to update our engines.

When the time comes, Hopefully We can get a MMO.It is a really good idea,I really hope that when the engine is finished, MAYBE we could get Aard's Genius into helping MOD this.Because Of all the Extremely hard work hes put into this engine, and i thank you for that,I Know it is very possible to MOD it into a MMO, but only when it is finished.

I agree on all points above, We DO definately need a stable release.We also need something With an Engine and Default game.Because going through and recoding all the stuff you dont need and/or want is hell.But as I said Before, we will continue work on the project for fun, and IF and when the time comes, well already have all the content we want in the MMO.

#100: ..

by makkE on 06/21/2005 22:08 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

Oooh.. lower your goals, people, I think is what aardapple meant.

Why does it have to an mmorpg? An mmorpg requires a huge amount of time not only designing it, but also maintaining it (powerful servers, gamemasters, and some portion of that magic word "persistency" not to mention enough space for all the masses to dwell in.)

A simple, single player RPG is already a huge task compared to some fps-mod (of wich 990 out of 1000 already fail)...
So composing an RPG using sauerbraten is already a big, big thing..

You don´t want to have your planned mmorpg/rpg to have 4 weapons, 5 kinds of monters and 4 kinds of spells, do you?
Just think about the artwork needed to get a simple 3d-RPG (that can entertain nowadays players) to work..

You´ll need :

- a lot of weapons
- a lot of fancy spells (fx)
- a lot of diffrent monster models
- npc characters
- lots of additional items and world models

2d art (icons,menus and such) for all these, sound fx for all that

and last but not least, a good story, backround, missions, ai, scripting, a general concept, etc etc

So if you go for mmorpg, you´ll need additionally:

-a netcode that can handle it
-a lot of extra rules
-a lot more levels/maps
-a lot of time to take care of the community
-a lot lots more of bugfixing, because you will never know how people will exploit even the most harmless c-bugs...

@darkstar:

You idea might sound great, but take a while to think how much control (time, dedication and efford) you and your gamemasters will have to put into that project AFTER you have created all the code and artwork needed for it.
And the concept of letting players build the world for you.. forget it. As far as your concept goes, you´ll get 1 good building in 50 crap ones ;) Players want to play, not map...

And do you really think people (coders, artists) will get all exited if they see this:

"You can check our roadmap (link) to see how we're planning to do things."

and end up here:

"Current Status

-Website is up. Forum is up.

Roadmap

-Write a roadmap."

Oo
If you want to get artists and coders excited about your idea, you will need to show them some more (at least a good story/backround, some concept art and a general gameplay concept)...

#101: saueRPG

by ssdd_darkstar on 06/21/2005 21:31 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

i've been thinking a lot about sauer and MMORPG, and i've come to the conclusion that if you want to make an mmorpg with sauer, you have to do two things:

on the coding side:
help develop sauerbraten in general, but at the same time focus on implementing (mmo)rpg related features that would get in the game anyway. this way we help sauerbraten _and_ pave the road for a sauer mmorpg. so the best option is to work on the main sauer source. later, when the code is sufficiently mature, a new gamemode (preferably) or a mod can be built.

on the art side:
start gathering and packageing art. these will probably be released separately from the main sauer package. it is possible that the 'official art' package will be separated from the binary/source releases in the future.

the best scenario would be the following: sauer will have a mmorpg gamemode (maybe a plugin), but if you want to play it, you need to download the mmorpg art. as the world will be dynamic, automatic downloading might be a feature etc.

anyway, if there are peole interested in working on mmorpgizing sauer, visit my site:
http://terra.dyn.ro/terra/

#102: sigh

by Aardappel_ on 06/21/2005 21:01 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

well, there's many reasons noone has done it yet. First of all, making games on top of sauerbraten will be more efficient for everyone involved if we stick to the "sauerbraten future development timeline" (see other thread).

Second, because an MMORPG is suicide unless you have a large team of very experienced, and even more important, very DEDICATED, developers. Why do you think that someone with the deep experience that I have, that has helped architected highly succesful commercial games, and teaches people how to create games for a living, chooses to make a mere RPG over an MMORPG? Because I want to be sure I can finish what I start, and I prefer a succesful game over a failed start. Yet every 14 year old with no programming experience even, thinks they can do better than me. Well good luck. You will probably learn something with your imminent failure.

IF we were to be highly succesful with an RPG project, I am all for attempting a MMORPG sometime in the far away future. But that's a big IF.

#103: Re: stuff

by tentus on 06/21/2005 15:03 in Sauerbraten M/MMORPG Full Conversion Mod

interesting pics, 592. look amazingly high poly, would you mind putting some stats up for those guns?

to M/MMORPG- feel free to use anything out of my MOD, Cube Legends (that's mine anyways, i can't speak for the stuff i didn't make). I'm workig with the cube engine, so obviously there are some gaps and overlaps, but there's probably plenty in there you could use for your MOD.

#104: Re: Map Linking

by shadow516 on 06/08/2005 02:01 in Sauerbraten - Bug reports

Hmmm...

Good idea. That would make converting sauer into an RPG much easier, and maybe even a MMORPG!

We could have really cool city maps - you could even own property, and if someone tries to go onto your property, you could be asked whether to let them in - but that's WAY in the future...

#105: mmorpg

by ssdd on 06/03/2005 23:51 in Sauerbraten engine development

hi!
is anybody interested in doing a mmorpg with sauerbraten?

#106: um...

by Aardappel_ on 04/25/2005 20:23 in Cube engine for an MMORPG?

one of the major points of sauerbraten was to make it scale independent, to allow for large outdoor landscapes, for doing RPGs with huge worlds. Also the map format both in memory and on disk is small, which favors loading huge worlds at once without having to load chunks. Not saying its the ideal engine for an MMORPG but you could do worse.

#107: p2p

by Pxtl on 11/19/2004 02:16 in Sauerbraten engine development

I'd been thinking about p2p Cube, and to accomplish NAT traversal, perhaps a consideration of one of the existing p2p frameworks would be in order? JXTA, for example.

I also had a pseudo-MMORPG in mind as one of the possible applications for Sauer, but my concept was much smaller scope, simply having servers use portals to link to each other and have a single metaserver track inventories and stats. Of course, this falls apart when everyone rushes one server to attack The Big Castle, but its a thought.

#108: Changes

by jerrybean on 11/18/2004 23:05 in Sauerbraten engine development

Sorry, long post here. I have enumerated here some ideas for changes to Sauerbraten I want to make, but I would like some feedback before I do. Thoughts, ideas, opinions, and questions welcome and wanted. I tried to be brief, but ...
______

There are several different ideas here, but they are also interrelated. The changes that I am looking for are: Arbitrary surfaces, Hide/ease the vertex count limitation, Hierarchial culling, and Arbitrary world size. I am looking to do these with as minimal change to Sauerbraten as possible.

Arbitrary Surfaces:
Effects vertex/face generation and possibly physics.

1. Change how cube geometry is calculated from intersection of planes to specified coordinates, keeping the same resolution.

2. Make cubes concave by swaping opposing faces such that the faces of the cube are inward facing. A face flush aginst the outer boundry would not be rendered. (I belive I saw mention of concave in the latest source, but I havn't had a chance to investigae it.)

Hide the Vertex Count Limitation:
Effects octree generation.

3. Break the cube face mapping into hierarchial groups. Use the same single, flat vertex mapping as is currently done, but transform the vertex array for each group. Combined with idea #1, a three level deep hierarchy would have a total of 274625 possible vertex locations. Breaking the hierarchy into groups no more than 3 levels deep would result in any arbitrarly complex map would have no more than 274625 vertices, thus fitting into AGP memory. Even without #1 and with deeper groupings, given a complex map, vertex reuse will be high and saturation of all possible vertex locations probably low, giving lower vertex counts.

One downside is that a if a maximum of 3 hierarchy levels is used, a group will only have a maximum of 3072 faces (8x8x8 cubes x 6 faces), but usually far less, adding a lot of overhead, while using deeper groups increases maximum possible vertex count such that a fixed, precalculated vertex set cannot be used. 4 levels with #1 would mave a maximum of 2 million verts.

Hierarchial Culling:
Effects realtime rendering path. Requires #3.

4. Frustum Culling. I already have an implementation of hierarchial frustum occlusion. If a cube is partially visible, it's children are tested, recursivly. Generates a linked list of visible face map groups.

5. Occlusion Culling. Not so much an idea as some thoughts on hardware occlusion testing. While it may be easiest to implement, it costs fill rate (basically it is doing a Z buffer test only pass and counting visible pixels). This may be useful for high tri count groups that are far enough away that testing a bounding cube doesn't cost too much and likelyness of occlusion is higher. However, there is also a delay time before results of test are available.

Arbitrary World Sizes:
Effects loading/saving. Should be transparent to octarender and only small effect on octaedit.

6. My idea here would be to stitch multiple maps together. This really depends on #1 and #3 for a fixed vertex set used by all maps. A "macro-cube" would be used to manage a set of local maps. Using a fixed, precalculated vertex set (65x65x65 = 274625) removes vertex hashtable and lookup, speeding up in-play loading of maps as you move around the world. Each map would contain information on adjcent maps.


My eventual goal is a MMORPG style game, where players own there own part(s) of the world, which they can create and control as they please... while the world is alive and populated by other players. A hybrid P2P/server (open peers act as servers for players stuck behind a firewall/NAT) network would be used to distribute and update maps and interact with other players. Long term, but I would like to get the basic shell going so it can grow with Sauerbraten, and maybe futher motivate it's development. ;)

#109: I know...

by innovati on 08/21/2004 03:40 in RPG

you gyus have missed it entirely...

I DON'T want a MMORPG. NO NO NO NO NO!!!

I DON'T want a TURN BASED GAME!!!

As for the swords, those were just ideas for a variety of different Handles and guards (Did I say it was my best work anywhere?). About making a complete world for the game, you guys think that it takes lots of work?

It takes more than you think now, you've ont only gotta create the world, and maps, but also histories for each of the groups of people, they must have distinctive art styles, different cultural trditions and languages. There is soo sooo much that goes into a game. But did i ask for your help with any of that?

I don't mind if you want to contribute to that side of things, but I need coders. Me and my friends are making the story. Not up on the website yet. The website is a placeholder, a temporary peek into the devloppment.

That is not all the work that is being done on Final Dawn, in reality, the story and cultures have been around for about a year now...but i haven't had time to type them up in the last week for you to read. I have looked at all those projects, and out of those that aren't DEAD or $$$, the only ones left are not the type of game engine I need.

Where did the idea of an fallen angel come into this game? not form my site. the two word i used were "Nephilim" and "Human". I did say that there was a God, but I clearly explained that it was a fictional angelology, i'm not trying to impose or imply that this diety and angelology is or even *could* be real in the world. It is just an illustration and a framework to base a system of morals on, and give the cultures seen in the world some depth.

It explains the emnity between the Fallen (Humans) and the Nephilim, and why the Nephilim are so scarce.

And...the story I have written on the website is equal to the blurb about a movie on its back cover, it is in no means (or implied) the complete story, nor is it (or implied) all the work that has been done on the story. It is just the story at a glance.

It was made for people who want to know what the gist of the story is, without having to wade through a complete manuscript.

I am not designing the costumes, Anna-Neko is, and if you had read the caption below the first image, there's even a link to her site.

I have NO qualms whatsoever about using Saurbraten instead of Cube for the game. The only reason i am using Cube is because Saurbraten is not yet at a level of maturity where it can be released in a game. Also, as spentron said, even if the game is made on the Cube engine, it would not be very hard to port it to Saurbraten.

There IS some debate between the Old-style RPG games (like D&D and paper/tabletop RPGs) and the newer (I know it is a mis-definition)RPG games. The game I am making and the audience i am making it for call it an RPG. i am not the originator of this mis-definition, but that is the word they are looking for. On my site, I describe it as an Action/RPG, insinuating that there is action involved in the game. This should be, mixed with the rest of the description I graciously provided, enough for any kind of video-gamer to distinguish the type of game my game is.

As for occult influences, I don't care if yur priest plays "Satans temple: The Bloody Ressurection" every night with you, I do not like playing games with occult influences. It's not that I can't handle it, or am afraid of it, I JUST DON'T ENJOY IT!

Could you play a game that DIDN'T have occult influences? Sure you could, everybody could, but as soon as I or anybody else puts them in, that alienates a part of the potential market. That I why I do not want to put them in.

also, I have stated many many many times that i want this game to be cross platform. As in run on more than one OS. Very few Action/RPG games are crossplatform. If I use a gamemaker (Which I do not!) or if I modify an existing RPG, it will not likely be cross-platform.

I am not asking for you to tell me how i should make my game, or why I am doing my game this way or that way. I'm not asking for your art critiques, or isults. All i asked of you is that somebody help fix the Cube engine so that me and my friends can make a game in peace, the way we want to make it. we are willing and ready to make the rest of it, but the only thing we cannot do is the coding.

I hope this clears up some mis-conceptions about the nature of my game. It doesn't seem like anybody is even reading my posts or my website.

#110: *applause*

by Pxtl on 08/18/2004 22:52 in RPG

Was waiting for someone to say that - sick of saying it myself. Thankyou, Aard. Oh, well - at least he didn't say he wanted to make an MMORPG like most of them do.

#111: Dynamic geometry

by Morningstar on 03/22/2004 07:23 in Sauerbraten engine development

Given Sauerbraten has an in-engine map editor, I\'d be tempted to go one step further than just deformable terrain, and actually integrate map editing into the game itself. (Perhaps more suited to a MMORPG than an RPG or FPS...)

Imagine a world where Mages have the ability to shape the world around them. They can tunnel through rock, throw up walls to defend themselves, or build castles (or mountains!)...

Some spells might make sense to occur realtime in game (Raise Pillar, for example, might create a tall column of particular height under the Mage\'s feet), while more complex changes might be better isolated from other players -- the Mage could create a \'boundary cube\' inside which he has total control over the map for a time; other players could see the changes through the boundary, but not enter themselves, so they don\'t interfere with the editing process.

Just an idea...

#112: Re: ..

by Aardappel on 03/19/2004 07:06 in Sauerbraten engine development

again, yes its technically possible, but it would completely defy the point of sauerbraten. If you want to use max to create game architecture, you are better off with other engines.

Linking up servers is a fun idea, but it needs a bit more serious infrastructure to be really fun. You could have a mini-mmorpg this way if players could carry their stats & items over to new servers, and worlds persisted as well.

#113: Random maps?

by Kagato on 03/27/2003 14:25 in Most Wanted Feature

Not a feature request as such, but a bit of whimsy...
Given that Cube:

* does not need precompiled maps
* can render very large maps efficiently
* has a map format with fairly strict rules

it seems like the perfect candidate for an in-game random map generator.

I'm sure most of you have heard of SLIGE for Doom; I'm imagining something a bit like that. It could work just as well standalone, of course, but I'm thinking a bit further along...

If you generate a really large map, say size 10 or even 11, then it could have hundreds of interconnected rooms. If they were populated with various items and monsters, then you'd have a complete dungeon-crawl in one continuous map, generated from a random seed. A bit like NetHack in 3D! Now, if you add in the multiplayer support, you've got Diablo-style gameplay, where a group of players can all join in the same adventure.

But here's where I think it could get interesting. Since Cube is thick-client, each client only needs to care about its local environment, and the server doesn't care much about the map at all (if I understand right). So, in theory at least, the clients could generate just the section of map for the immediate area... which means the maps could almost be of arbitrary size (maybe even infinite). Now you could even be getting into MMORPG territory :)

Okay, maybe that's stretching things a bit. I think this is more a fork project than anything else, but does it sound possible? If so, I might have to get into Cube hacking :)

#114: use cube as DLL.

by freddix on 12/09/2002 23:20 in General Thread

should it be possible to make 3D engine in DLL format to use it with C++ or programming langaes that support DLLs

I ask you that because I code using DarkBasic Professional ( www.darkbasicpro.com ).
It is a basic langage oriented Direct X and an OpenGL engine should be a +

DarkBasicPro support the add of new DLL to use as new commands.

If cube can be builded as DLL , it should be possible to use your excellent 3D engine for others kind of games like RPG , MMORPG , 3D shoots en up , and more . . .

Simply by building it as DLL and giving the list of included functions( to create string table that make the link between your 3D engine and DarkBasic Pro )

#115: whoops.. itchy post finger

by freality on 10/30/2002 04:09 in Most Wanted Feature

- Better GFX
- volumetric shadows
- complex environmental fx (e.g. rain, wind)
- Spraypaint that stays forever, so that gangs can mark territory, and hence compete to control it.

- Better Characters
- Customizable avatars to pick up on RPG systems' capabilities (e.g. divide 200 points up among speed/strength/robustness/agility/accuracy)
- male/female

- Better Maps
- Seamless server-to-server mobility, via portals (i.e. walk to the next server through door A)
- Use seamless server-to-server maps to implement very large maps (i.e. the size of cities, like Sony's new Star Wars MMORPG)

- Web I/O
- In-game access to browsing (e.g. walk up to a browser-wall and interact with it) for new avatars, in-world news, etc.

... you know, sky's the limit!

#116: 1 request, 1 question, and one thought

by Loki on 07/29/2002 07:11 in Most Wanted Feature

Request:

Beautiful engine, I love the thing, but... hehe is it possible to set it up so the cubes can be placed in 3d instead of in an overhead fashion. (I’m thinking like how they did 3d fleet placement in Homeworld where you select the 2d co ordinance and then held shift to edit z position)

Question: where can I learn how to program a 3d engine like this, just gimme someplace to start

Thought: A nifty mmorpg in which mages can in game edit the map. Magic isn't just scripted spells anymore, they are game mechanics. (would break the dull cycle of not being able to research your own spells, and being stuck with whatever the programmers though would be best)